The roles of elder/pastor and deacon has nothing to do with men being smarter or more capable than women but according to the order that God ordained for this function. Men and women are equal in God’s sight as far as worth. God never specified gender for the role of prophet (Miriam, Ellen White etc.) or ruler (Deborah) but He did specify only for men to be priests and elders/pastors as well as deacons.
Is it part of the Spirit of God to force a group, in this case the General Conference, to submit to those to sign a petition to implement the change or should the change be made based SOLELY upon the scriptural evidence? We know it is the latter. We also know that if God says something in His Word that it stays this way unless He changes it. Balaam tried to go against God’s Word and God told Him that he cannot curse what God has blessed so why is your group trying to go down the same path? The bible gives a clear definition of who may fill the role of an elder/pastor and a deacon just as it gives a clear definition of what sin is. Anything other than to the law and to the testimony, when the bible gives a definition or command, is not of God. Satan tried to overthrow God, Korah tried to overthrow Moses and Aaron and now women in a few divisions are trying to overthrow men being the only ones who hold the head positions in the church, including the conference positions.
Your work will in the end come to nought as you cannot support your petition with scripture as it contradicts what is clear. Saying that Junia was an apostle is untrue as she was only well known to the apostles as she was a follower of Christ and may have done great work but not in the office of apostle. Other women who worked for the salvation of souls in the bible does not mean that they too were elders/pastors or deacons as there are many ministries even today that women do fantastically but they are not in these positions but they are working for Christ.
This movement is not of Christ and is causing division and until you who push this agenda see the damage that is being caused because you reject clear testimonies in the Word as to who is ordained for this role, Satan will have you on his side. To say that it had to do with custom, the letters were written to not only Timothy but also to Titus in a different land and to say that it was because of a male dominated society is also false as other religions at the time had priestesses when God’s church did not.
May you pray over what is written and a thus saith the Lord so that you may know that you are on the Lord’s side.
For groups to push liberal/political agenda and usurp the teaching of the Bible and clear messages from the pen of inspiration is appalling. You will now be labeled a gender biased anti-woman grumpy old man for standing up for truth.
Prophets were sent by God to lead the people back to Biblical truth. Its silly how people now want to turn there back on a message God sent through a women for our times.
The same principles of piety and justice that were to guide the rulers among God’s people in the time of Moses and of David, were also to be followed by those given the oversight of the newly organized church of God in the gospel dispensation. In the work of setting things in order in all the churches, and ordaining suitable men to act as officers, the apostles held to the high standards of leadership outlined in the Old Testament Scriptures. They maintained that he who is called to stand in a position of leading responsibility in the church “must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self-willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; but a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.” Titus 1:7-9. Acts of the Apostles page 95
The primary object of our college was to afford young men an opportunity to study for the ministry and to prepare young persons of both sexes to become workers in the various branches of the cause. 5T page 60.
Those who enter the missionary field should be men and women who walk and talk with God. Those who stand as ministers in the sacred desk should be men of blameless reputation. 5T page 598
Thank you brother for the testimony quotes. The Lord has used you to share Truth that I have not seen this clearly from the writings of sister White before on this topic. May God bless you always.
I can understand why women want to serve the Lord however we must all be satisfied with the work the Lord has given each of us to do. Men and women have different functions and God has revealed this in the Godhead:
“The holy life and character of Christ is a faithful example. His confidence in his heavenly Father was unlimited. His obedience and submission were unreserved and perfect. He came not to be ministered unto, but to minister to others. He came not to do his own will, but the will of Him that sent him. In all things he submitted himself to Him that judgeth righteously. From the lips of the Saviour of the world were heard these words, “I can of mine own self do nothing.” [John 5:30.]” {GW92 376.2}
If, as one pastor that was praised for his sermon preached, a woman can fill the role of an elder/pastor then with his reasoning, a woman can then also fill the role of a husband. I just sent the following to our world leaders:
Dear leaders of our churches,
Our people need to know what is at stake in supporting women in a function that God never intended. We even have some who have put together a petition of force equality in ordination. This movement, of women in ministry, is not of God and many God loving individuals, including pastors and theologians, have been taken in to support the cause.
As the pressure increases to place women in roles of Elder/Pastor and conference President, I have been impressed to work for the Lord in bringing forth Truth, “in context”, to fight against these sophistries of Satan. To add to your study of biblical support for the Truth in this matter, here are 2 quotes from Sister White that could not be clearer. I am not sure if you have read the following but Sister White is crystal clear on who is qualified for which function.
We must all realize that men and women were created for a different purpose to work together in the service of the Lord knowing that neither gender is of less value in the sight of God.
1. The primary object of our college was to afford young men an opportunity to study for the ministry and to prepare young persons of both sexes to become workers in the various branches of the cause. 5T page 60. (I have underlined and italicized the word “and” as it shows that women are part of another work for the cause)
2. Those who enter the missionary field should be men and women who walk and talk with God. Those who stand as ministers in the sacred desk should be men of blameless reputation. 5T page 598
Women should work for the Lord and He has a role for them along with men but not in the office of elder/pastor which would also disqualify women from holding a position in Conference leadership. Our leaders in the NAD have sadly approved women to hold the role of Conference President even after their request to allow women to hold this role was rejected by the GC leadership at the recent AGC. This is not unity.
If 1 Timothy 3:1-7 can be interpreted to support women in the function of elder/pastor, then, in a marriage, what would hinder a woman from assuming the role of a husband or a man from assuming the role of a wife? The argument must be universal and therefore can easily be seen that this reasoning is not of God’s order.
Please take some time to read Chapter 6 of 5T and it will be seen how we have turned from the Lord by rejecting the testimonies given through Sister White. I pray that the damage that will take place in 2015, when God’s Truth is poured out on this topic, at the GC session, of who shall hold the position of Elder/Pastor, will be minimized by having all our leaders in positions of trust to submit to what is written, rightly dividing the Word of Truth and claiming only a “Thus saith the Lord”. There is absolutely no support for this function in the Word of God through the writers of the bible nor found in the writings of Sister White. While support for women in ministry may seem right, the bible is clear when it says, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” Proverbs 14:12, 16:25.
Our only defence to fight against error is as that of our Lord, “It is written. Man shall not live by bread alone; but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord.” Deuteronomy 8:3, Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4 Our people must be educated to know the Truth. “Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth.” John 17:17.
Satan beguiled Eve by quoting something that God had not said and we are suffering the consequences from her decision to rise to a function and experience that God never intended for her to have and sadly Adam was swayed because of his love for her. Must we love women so much that we are willing to reject God’s clear counsel, in this area, as well?
God created us women equal
Wonderful job Robert Jacobson may god bless you ….Today many women are discriminated because of our gender even sadly in our Seventh-Day Churches. We have to stop discrimination ….Also I truly believe that Gods calls women and men to serve in the ministry.
I don’t seem to see any woman that I know about complaining about woman’s role in the church like this video seems to project. I grew up with a single mother and six older sisters, I love them all dearly and they don’t seem to have any problem at all whatsoever about the manner which our church leadership is structured on the male/female basis. I highly doubt this video is a fare representation of women in the united states as a whole, it appears that this video is put on by some people who want to push their own agenda rather than seek what the bible and woman really think, feel, and have to say about this topic. Let me know if you would like to talk to any of my family members, I also have many nephews and nieces, as well as multiple friends who work at conference level positions who have no problem with the way things have been run in the church relating to women’s role for the past 170 years. Love you all and God bless you! Maranatha! Wins some souls for Jesus everyone.
January 10, 2012 at 7:17 pm
The roles of elder/pastor and deacon has nothing to do with men being smarter or more capable than women but according to the order that God ordained for this function. Men and women are equal in God’s sight as far as worth. God never specified gender for the role of prophet (Miriam, Ellen White etc.) or ruler (Deborah) but He did specify only for men to be priests and elders/pastors as well as deacons.
Is it part of the Spirit of God to force a group, in this case the General Conference, to submit to those to sign a petition to implement the change or should the change be made based SOLELY upon the scriptural evidence? We know it is the latter. We also know that if God says something in His Word that it stays this way unless He changes it. Balaam tried to go against God’s Word and God told Him that he cannot curse what God has blessed so why is your group trying to go down the same path? The bible gives a clear definition of who may fill the role of an elder/pastor and a deacon just as it gives a clear definition of what sin is. Anything other than to the law and to the testimony, when the bible gives a definition or command, is not of God. Satan tried to overthrow God, Korah tried to overthrow Moses and Aaron and now women in a few divisions are trying to overthrow men being the only ones who hold the head positions in the church, including the conference positions.
Your work will in the end come to nought as you cannot support your petition with scripture as it contradicts what is clear. Saying that Junia was an apostle is untrue as she was only well known to the apostles as she was a follower of Christ and may have done great work but not in the office of apostle. Other women who worked for the salvation of souls in the bible does not mean that they too were elders/pastors or deacons as there are many ministries even today that women do fantastically but they are not in these positions but they are working for Christ.
This movement is not of Christ and is causing division and until you who push this agenda see the damage that is being caused because you reject clear testimonies in the Word as to who is ordained for this role, Satan will have you on his side. To say that it had to do with custom, the letters were written to not only Timothy but also to Titus in a different land and to say that it was because of a male dominated society is also false as other religions at the time had priestesses when God’s church did not.
May you pray over what is written and a thus saith the Lord so that you may know that you are on the Lord’s side.
God bless,
Greg
January 28, 2012 at 2:23 am
Amen Greg,
For groups to push liberal/political agenda and usurp the teaching of the Bible and clear messages from the pen of inspiration is appalling. You will now be labeled a gender biased anti-woman grumpy old man for standing up for truth.
Prophets were sent by God to lead the people back to Biblical truth. Its silly how people now want to turn there back on a message God sent through a women for our times.
The same principles of piety and justice that were to guide the rulers among God’s people in the time of Moses and of David, were also to be followed by those given the oversight of the newly organized church of God in the gospel dispensation. In the work of setting things in order in all the churches, and ordaining suitable men to act as officers, the apostles held to the high standards of leadership outlined in the Old Testament Scriptures. They maintained that he who is called to stand in a position of leading responsibility in the church “must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self-willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; but a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.” Titus 1:7-9. Acts of the Apostles page 95
The primary object of our college was to afford young men an opportunity to study for the ministry and to prepare young persons of both sexes to become workers in the various branches of the cause. 5T page 60.
Those who enter the missionary field should be men and women who walk and talk with God. Those who stand as ministers in the sacred desk should be men of blameless reputation. 5T page 598
In His service, John
January 28, 2012 at 2:12 pm
Thank you brother for the testimony quotes. The Lord has used you to share Truth that I have not seen this clearly from the writings of sister White before on this topic. May God bless you always.
I can understand why women want to serve the Lord however we must all be satisfied with the work the Lord has given each of us to do. Men and women have different functions and God has revealed this in the Godhead:
“The holy life and character of Christ is a faithful example. His confidence in his heavenly Father was unlimited. His obedience and submission were unreserved and perfect. He came not to be ministered unto, but to minister to others. He came not to do his own will, but the will of Him that sent him. In all things he submitted himself to Him that judgeth righteously. From the lips of the Saviour of the world were heard these words, “I can of mine own self do nothing.” [John 5:30.]” {GW92 376.2}
If, as one pastor that was praised for his sermon preached, a woman can fill the role of an elder/pastor then with his reasoning, a woman can then also fill the role of a husband. I just sent the following to our world leaders:
Dear leaders of our churches,
Our people need to know what is at stake in supporting women in a function that God never intended. We even have some who have put together a petition of force equality in ordination. This movement, of women in ministry, is not of God and many God loving individuals, including pastors and theologians, have been taken in to support the cause.
As the pressure increases to place women in roles of Elder/Pastor and conference President, I have been impressed to work for the Lord in bringing forth Truth, “in context”, to fight against these sophistries of Satan. To add to your study of biblical support for the Truth in this matter, here are 2 quotes from Sister White that could not be clearer. I am not sure if you have read the following but Sister White is crystal clear on who is qualified for which function.
We must all realize that men and women were created for a different purpose to work together in the service of the Lord knowing that neither gender is of less value in the sight of God.
1. The primary object of our college was to afford young men an opportunity to study for the ministry and to prepare young persons of both sexes to become workers in the various branches of the cause. 5T page 60. (I have underlined and italicized the word “and” as it shows that women are part of another work for the cause)
2. Those who enter the missionary field should be men and women who walk and talk with God. Those who stand as ministers in the sacred desk should be men of blameless reputation. 5T page 598
Women should work for the Lord and He has a role for them along with men but not in the office of elder/pastor which would also disqualify women from holding a position in Conference leadership. Our leaders in the NAD have sadly approved women to hold the role of Conference President even after their request to allow women to hold this role was rejected by the GC leadership at the recent AGC. This is not unity.
If 1 Timothy 3:1-7 can be interpreted to support women in the function of elder/pastor, then, in a marriage, what would hinder a woman from assuming the role of a husband or a man from assuming the role of a wife? The argument must be universal and therefore can easily be seen that this reasoning is not of God’s order.
Please take some time to read Chapter 6 of 5T and it will be seen how we have turned from the Lord by rejecting the testimonies given through Sister White. I pray that the damage that will take place in 2015, when God’s Truth is poured out on this topic, at the GC session, of who shall hold the position of Elder/Pastor, will be minimized by having all our leaders in positions of trust to submit to what is written, rightly dividing the Word of Truth and claiming only a “Thus saith the Lord”. There is absolutely no support for this function in the Word of God through the writers of the bible nor found in the writings of Sister White. While support for women in ministry may seem right, the bible is clear when it says, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” Proverbs 14:12, 16:25.
Our only defence to fight against error is as that of our Lord, “It is written. Man shall not live by bread alone; but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord.” Deuteronomy 8:3, Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4 Our people must be educated to know the Truth. “Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth.” John 17:17.
Satan beguiled Eve by quoting something that God had not said and we are suffering the consequences from her decision to rise to a function and experience that God never intended for her to have and sadly Adam was swayed because of his love for her. Must we love women so much that we are willing to reject God’s clear counsel, in this area, as well?
February 25, 2012 at 4:08 am
God created us women equal
Wonderful job Robert Jacobson may god bless you ….Today many women are discriminated because of our gender even sadly in our Seventh-Day Churches. We have to stop discrimination ….Also I truly believe that Gods calls women and men to serve in the ministry.
Blessings,
April 1, 2012 at 7:45 pm
I don’t seem to see any woman that I know about complaining about woman’s role in the church like this video seems to project. I grew up with a single mother and six older sisters, I love them all dearly and they don’t seem to have any problem at all whatsoever about the manner which our church leadership is structured on the male/female basis. I highly doubt this video is a fare representation of women in the united states as a whole, it appears that this video is put on by some people who want to push their own agenda rather than seek what the bible and woman really think, feel, and have to say about this topic. Let me know if you would like to talk to any of my family members, I also have many nephews and nieces, as well as multiple friends who work at conference level positions who have no problem with the way things have been run in the church relating to women’s role for the past 170 years. Love you all and God bless you! Maranatha! Wins some souls for Jesus everyone.